RE: Niqaab: thoughts

From: DT
Subject: RE: Niqaab: thoughts
To:
Date: Sunday, September 18, 2011, 12:49 PM

Please remove “Darwin Troupe” from this email group. This email is for business purposes only and should not be used for any non-business matters.

Thanks you.

Darwin

From: Brahima Arsalan
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 12:35 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Niqaab: thoughts

AsSalamu Alaikum,

I should begin by clarifying, I'm not a woman. Therefore, my opinion on the matter would be Opbased on experiences I could never possess; so I have no opinion.

I am aware of the verses and hadith you've cited; however, though related to the topic they're irrelevent to the issue. Because none of the citations specify the niqaab, which is a culturally specific mode of covering that came about some time after the time of the Prophet (saws). If I am in error on this point, plz correct me.

I should recall the wisdom Allah al OpRahman imparted to Dhul Qarnain in Sura 18:90, in which it is stated thus: "Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun. He left them as they were; We completely understood what was before him."

Here's an example of people living in nakedness, but in tranquility. Two things are stressed in these ayats. First, the relative nature of sin; which is a reoccuring theme throughout the sura. Second, the wisdom needed to see the limitations of our personal perspectives. For the powerful to impose their views on a situation different from their own is arrogant and disasterous; which is often the case when men debate women's issues.

On Sep 17, 2011 10:45 PM, Hector Crespo wrote:

Bismillah irahman iraheem

Asalaam aleykum sister Brahima and brother Bilal and thank you both for replying.

Sister, I see your reasoning for saying that this is a woman's issue and that men have no say in it and in fact I believe, and this is just my humble opinion sister, that no man or woman for that matter has a say on the subject, as our beloved Prophet s.a.w. said "The pens have been lifted and the pages have dried." What has already been ordered for us to follow has already been made clear in the Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet s.a.w. and whether we choose to act on that order or not is up to us and is why I said in my first email that he who wishes to believe let him do so and he who wishes to disbelieve let him disbelieve, we will all be judged by what we did ourselves, not what someone else did.

As for why I say that the order has been given brothers and sisters, Allah s.w.t says in His glorious Quran what means:

Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! Turn ye all together towards Allah that ye may attain Bliss.
Surah 24 Ayat 30-31

O prophet! tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested: and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Surah 33 Ayat 59

In regards to the above verse Aisha r.a. said:

'Aisha used to say: "When (the Verse): 'They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,' was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces."
Bukhari 6:282

When the verse "That they should cast their outer garments over their persons" was revealed, the women of Ansar came out as if they had crows over their heads by wearing outer garments.
Hadith - Abu Dawud, Narrated Umm Salamah, Ummul Mu'minin

Will not following these orders merit you a one way ticket to the fires of jahan'um? Allahu'alim, Allah s.w.t. knows best and I am not here to scream at any sister that she will go to hellfire because she did not follow the above verses though I would advise her and the rest of us to follow them. But Allah s.w.t. is the best to forgive and the best to know who deserves his mercy, we all know that in 3 Abrahamic religions which are Judaism, Christianity and Islam fornication has been forbidden but Allah s.w.t. chose to forgive a prostitute from the Children of Israel for no other reason than giving a thirsty dog some water. So who am I to say that a sister will go to hellfire for not wearing hijab/niqab?

Brother Bilal you said that much of this is culturally alien to you but I must say that hijab and/or niqab are not culture for the above quoted verses and ahadith, they are part of the deen. I would advise that you read up on the subject and speak with any local scholars if you can as well regarding the subject and advise your daughters and wife if you have one to wear the hijab and inshalla the niqaab but advise them in the best of manners as we are told to in the Quran.

As for things being alien, think of how it must have been for the Prophet s.a.w. and the believers of his time...Islam was alien to them, women used to walk around bare chested, men used to bury alive their young girls for being just that, women would choose their husband from a lineup they just had fornicated with....this was the norm back then and we should be grateful and happy with what has been revealed to us as our deen, or way of life and not ashamed of it and I say this to all of us but first and formost to myself.

The Prophet s.a.w. is said to have said:

“Islam began strange, and it will become strange again just like it was at the beginning, so blessed are the strangers.”
Sahîh Muslim (1/130)

“The religion will shrink back to the Hijâz like the snake shrinks back into its hole. It will cling to the Hijâz like the mountain goat clings to the mountaintop. The religion began strange, and it will become strange again just like it was at the beginning, so blessed are the strangers who restore what the people corrupt of my Sunnah."
Sunan al-Tirmidhî (#2630)

Brothers and sisters, I thank you for having taken the time to read what I have written, if I have written something incorrectly, please correct me brothers or sisters. Whatever I have written that is true and correct is from Allah s.w.t. and whatever I have written that is untrue and incorrect is from myself and shaytan and beg that Allah s.w.t. forgive me.

Asalaam aleykum,
Hector Crespo

On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Isidro Reyes wrote:

Salaam brother,

I have a pluralistic view to the issue. I think the choice to wear one is individual preference and what one feels comfortable with. My daughters do not wear any of the aforementioned because it is culturally alien to us and as you mentioned neither hijab nor niqaab are mentioned in the Quran. As long as cultural modesty is observed it really comes down to a matter of subjectivity; right? Of course, intent is important.

I am not intransigent to different opinions and views and welcome your comments and/or concerns.

Salaam Alaykum brothers and sisters.

Bilal Isidro Reyes

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Hector Crespo wrote:

Mashallah, I think sister Heba did a great job defending her reasoning behind why it is she wears the niqaab. Sister Mouna put up the argument that it is not even mentioned in the Quran but I feel it is a bit of a wrong of her to use that argument considering how she is dressed. I believe that both sisters have a right to dress as they wish though as it does say in the Quran that they who wish to believe let them believe and they who don't, let them disbelieve. In the end we will all be brought to our Creator and He will be the best to judge.

I am curious though as to everyone else's opinions on this given the subject line...sorry for the late reply though.

Asalaam aleykum,
Hector Crespo

On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Ruben Morales wrote:

debate over the niqaab

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPpAskcDOcw
--
Ruben E. Morales
sontse07@gmail.com

لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله
lā ʾilāha ʾillallāh, Muḥammad rasūlu-llāh (Transliteration)
There is no deity but God, and Muhammad is the messenger of God. (English)
--
Isidro Reyes